Somewhere between 1 + 1 = 2 and the astonding mystery behind the numbers explored in Darren Aronofsky's brilliant film, Pi, philosophers sit contemplating their navels.


Excerpts from Pi:

Restate my assumptions. One: Mathematics is the language of nature. Two: Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. Three: If you graph the numbers of any system, patterns emerge. Therefore, there are patterns everywhere in nature.

Evidence: The cycling of disease epidemics; the wax and wane of caribou populations; sun spot cycles; the rise and fall of the Nile. So, what about the stock market? The universe of numbers that represents the global economy. Millions of hands at work, billions of minds.

A vast network, screaming with life. An organism. A natural organism. My hypothesis: Within the stock market, there is a pattern as well... Right in front of me, hiding behind the numbers. Always has been.

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Personal note. Sol died a little when he stopped research on Pi. It wasn't just the stroke. He stopped caring. How could he stop, when he was so close to seeing Pi for what it really is? How could you stop believing that there is a pattern, an ordered shape behind those numbers, when you were so close? We see the simplicity of the circle, we see the maddening complexity of the endless numbers....off into infinity.


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So... What do you do? I work with computers. Math. Math? What kind of math? Number theory. Research mostly. No way. I work with numbers myself. I mean, not traditional. I work with the Torah. Amazing! Hebrew is all math. It's all numbers. You know that? Look. Ancient Jews used Hebrew as their numerical system. Each letter's a number. The Hebrew A, Aleph, is . B, Bet, is . Understand? But look, the numbers are interrelated. Take the Hebrew for father, ab. Aleph, Bet. equals . The word for mother, haim. Aleph, Mem. equals . The sum of and . Right? Now, the Hebrew word for child - mother, father, child. Yelev. That's and . . Torah is just a long string of numbers. Some say that it's a code, sent to us from God. That's kind of interesting. That's kid's stuff, check this out. The Garden of Eden, Kadem. Numerical translation, . The value of tree of knowledge, in the garden. Right? Aat ha haim. . . . - You can take those numbers... - Those are Fibonacci numbers. They're...? You know, like the Fibonacci sequence? Fibonacci? Fibonacci is an ltalian mathematician in the th. If you divide into - the result approaches Theta. - Theta? Theta. The Greek symbol for the golden ratio, the golden spiral. Wow. I never saw that before. That's like that series you find in nature? - Like the face of a sunflower? - Wherever there are spirals. See, there's math everywhere. Hey, I... Max? : . Restate my assumptions. can be represented and understood through numbers. patterns emerge. Therefore, there are patterns everywhere in nature. So what about the stock market? A universe of numbers that represents the global economy. Millions of human hands at work, billions of minds. A vast network screaming with life. An organism. A natural organism. there is a pattern, right in front of me, playing with the numbers. Always has been.

know what's funny about that movie? in the beginning they quote pi like 3.1415926... well they didn't actually quote it correctly. They didn't even quote it accurate 10 places. After a while they just started repeating the digits and assumed no one would check it out to make sure it was accurate. What's so hard about showing pi accurately on the title screen of the movie?


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That's the theme behind the movie too: there's a difference between pretending to be intelligent and actually being intelligent.

That's the theme behind the movie too: there's a difference between pretending to be intelligent and actually being intelligent.

Well, that's your rendition of the film's theme, certainly. My own rendition is this: When one seeks to meld the "meaning" of pi mathematically into a philosophical construct regarding the meaning of human existence, who among us can objectively distinguish pretentious intellect from the real thing?

Can you?

If so, choose a human behavior we are all familiar with and make this distinction. And, given my own aim [bias] in this forum, please make that distinction morally and politically.

I've seen the movie many times. I owned it in fact. Here's a summary of it: The main character sees a 216 digit number on his computer monitor before the computer crashes. Jewish people are looking for a 216 digit number in the Torah. The main character's mentor says this happens because the 216 digit number caused the computer to become self-aware and intelligent. And the same 216 digit number tells you what the numbers will be in the stock market. Then he drills a hole through his head at the end.

I think it's a great film to watch if you're going into abnormal psychology since this is the act of someone that is delusional. Anyone who tries to find patterns this way for his theories is using bad reasoning and practicing bad science. It's also a good movie if you're into drugs and want to watch it while you're high or something.

I've seen the movie many times. I owned it in fact. Here's a summary of it: The main character sees a 216 digit number on his computer monitor before the computer crashes. Jewish people are looking for a 216 digit number in the Torah. The main character's mentor says this happens because the 216 digit number caused the computer to become self-aware and intelligent. And the same 216 digit number tells you what the numbers will be in the stock market. Then he drills a hole through his head at the end.

Yes, and one can describe a Bruce Willis action film in much the same way, right? You know, if simply describing what unfolds is all you are interested in.

I think it's a great film to watch if you're going into abnormal psychology since this is the act of someone that is delusional. Anyone who tries to find patterns this way for his theories is using bad reasoning and practicing bad science. It's also a good movie if you're into drugs and want to watch it while you're high or something.

I think it is a great film if you are curious about the relationship between mathematics, the laws of nature, the human mind and the behaviors that human minds choose. How are they all intertwined when we discuss, say, the relationship between "is" and "ought"?

Would you like to go there, perhaps?

I think it is a great film if you are curious about the relationship between mathematics, the laws of nature, the human mind and the behaviors that human minds choose. How are they all intertwined when we discuss, say, the relationship between "is" and "ought"?

Would you like to go there, perhaps?

okay let's take a look at the main character's reasoning skills.

LENNY: Yes, very much so. The only difference is, we’re not looking at the stock market. …..We’re searching for a pattern in the Torah.
MAX: What kind of pattern?
LENNY: We’re not sure. We only know, it’s 216 digits long. 28:00
Back in Sol’s apartment.
MAX: What's the two hundred and sixteen number, Sol?
SOL: Excuse me?
MAX: You asked me if I had seen a two hundred and sixteen digit number, right?
SOL: Oh, you mean the bug. I ran into it working on Pi.
MAX: What do you mean "ran into it"?
SOL: What is this all about,
MAX: There's these religious Jews that I’ve been talking to.
SOL: Religious Jews?
MAX: Yeah, you know Hassids the guys with the beards. I met one in the coffee shop. It turns out the guy's a number theorist. The Torah is his data set. He tells me that they are looking for a two hundred and sixteen digit number in the Torah.

Okay assuming the 216 digit number they are both talking about is not a number that starts with leading 0's that means that there are 900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or 9*10^216 possible 216 digit numbers. The odds that they are talking about the same number would be about the same odds as winning the powerball lottery 31 times in a row and yet he presents this as evidence to SOL. This is what you would expect from someone with mental illness.

MAX: (Incredulous) You're telling me that the number in my head is the true name of God!?
……
MAX: It's more than God...it s everything. It's math and science and nature...the universe. I saw the Universe's DNA
MAX: It's just a number. I'm sure you've written down every two hundred sixteen number. You've translated all of them. You've intoned them all. Haven't you? But what's it gotten you? The number is nothing! It's the meaning, the syntax. It's what's between the numbers. If you have not understood it, it’s not for you. I've got it, I’ve got it and I understand it, I'm going to see it! Rabbi...I was chosen.

Okay let's assume that they've been writing down 216 digit numbers for the last 10,000 years since humans began to write. Here's how many seconds are in 10,000 years 315,576,000,000 which doesn't even come close to the total number of 216 digit numbers there are. So even writing down and examining a 216 digit number every second would barely scratch the surface of every 216 digit number that exists. Even if every person on earth were writing down and examining a 216 digit number every second for 10,000 years, it would still only scratch the surface. Even computers wouldn't be able to do it any time soon especially computers during the time the movie was made (1998). The guy has the reasoning skills equivalent to someone with paranoid schizophrenia.