I usually prefer to steer clear of the coarse realm of politics and invest my time in more delicate spiritual matters, however, this is topical and can be traced back to basic ethics.
Can we have any conceivable, worthwhile future with capitalism?
Capitalism is a system mainly concerned with economics and the earning of money, so it is in fact these more basic institutions (deep seated as they are) that must me weighed up. Is money a good thing?
Certainly, rings the answer, with money one can afford food, a house, a car, a big TV, another car, a boat, a prostitute etc. etc. but this is not really a good answer.
Money, though considered a necessary part of human life, has (obviously) not always been around. Some might argue that money emerged with civilised man and is therefore better than no-money, however civilised man only became civilised in an attempt to reign in and hide his true nature: psychotic.
There are still cultures today, much as they are attacked, who live without money, they are healthy enough psychologically to share food around and not have to horde.
The emergence of money in human society is not a sign of greatness but of decline, a decline into madness. As people lose their sense of self worth and meaning they have to pile up food and material goods and refuse to give them away. This leads to bartering and eventually to the institution of money. So money, is in fact the result and fosterer of a vice: greed. Greed is arguably the enemy of succesful societeies, because it encourages people to be un-cooperative, which leads to all sorts of social problems.
As money is the highest value of Capitalism I do not believe that there is any future with this political system, it is based around silly boys playing with silly little pieces of paper and destroying all that is good in humanity in the process.
The bottom line is that all people have a basic human right to enough food, shelter and a sense of worth. Money and capitalism's deification of it lead us ever further from a time when this right will be granted to humans as it once was.

We should not treat our pets better than one another.

Money, though considered a necessary part of human life, has (obviously) not always been around. Some might argue that money emerged with civilised man and is therefore better than no-money, however civilised man only became civilised in an attempt to reign in and hide his true nature: psychotic.
There are still cultures today, much as they are attacked, who live without money, they are healthy enough psychologically to share food around and not have to horde.
The emergence of money in human society is not a sign of greatness but of decline, a decline into madness. As people lose their sense of self worth and meaning they have to pile up food and material goods and refuse to give them away. This leads to bartering and eventually to the institution of money. So money, is in fact the result and fosterer of a vice: greed. Greed is arguably the enemy of succesful societeies, because it encourages people to be un-cooperative, which leads to all sorts of social problems.
As money is the highest value of Capitalism I do not believe that there is any future with this political system, it is based around silly boys playing with silly little pieces of paper and destroying all that is good in humanity in the process.
The bottom line is that all people have a basic human right to enough food, shelter and a sense of worth. Money and capitalism's deification of it lead us ever further from a time when this right will be granted to humans as it once was.

We should not treat our pets better than one another.

Money enabled humans to engage in free trade because its denominations have a set value on which everybody could agree so that nobody would have to depend on barter. A system where I have to make a horseshoe and trade it to a farmer for milk so that I can trade that with a carpenter(who doesnt need a horseshoe) for my new kitchen table is quite inefficient. Especially since there would be disagreements over how many horseshoes for how much milk and how much milk tables are worth. It is also not perishable so that stockpiling is possible .

It is because of stockpiling(I suppose you could call this greed) that people created industry. If I can make a factory that creates 100 horseshoes a day I will have lots of money to improve the quality of life for myself and my family. Also since I am making so many horseshoes no one else in town has to make any horseshoes so other people are now free to do things of less tangible value but of high intrinsic value such as science and medicine. So currency(and the desire for it) is essential to the development of the human race.

I would argue that greed leads to greater cooperation, not less. I want more money, but I dont have enough to create an enterprise from which I can make more. I therefore must team up with like minded individuals in order to create that enterprise. Corporations have contributed immensely to our technological advancements in a way that it is impossible for individuals to accomplish all for the love of money.

Capitalism, in its purest form, is a very bad thing for the reasons you outlined and because it does not value human life and well being. The purpose of any institution(knowingly or unknowingly) should be to contribute to human well being otherwise it has no value that I can deduce.

Pure socialism puts all humans on equal footing. While this might seem noble at first the consequence is unacceptable. If we are all economically equal then there would be no way for me to improve my quality of life without improving everyones quality of life. It is so difficult for any given individual to improve everyones quality of life that it is practically impossible. That is a society consisting of individuals without hope for a better future. No motivation to produce, no motivation to innovate, no chance for human advancement.

Pure capitalism and pure socialism, like all extremes, are bad ideas. A balance between the two is best. I would personally prefer that my society(the US) leaned a little more towards socialism than it currently does but hey, life isnt perfect.

While your response was very well thought out I do not think you really addressed what i was saying, all your examples were based in a world in which all the signs of greed, commerce and decline are already in place. You seem to fear that without money and economics no-one would have any reason to do anything, but most people (artists, scientists, musicians, writers, philosophers) who truly excel in their fields have no real interest in money (at least at first) except insofar as it can get them the means to survive. The way I see it money is like a wall between humans and what they need to live, the only way to get through that wall is to work (usually not 'important' work, but only work to support someone else's greed) and as you take more money away the wall gets smaller and then you can eat, however the wall always returns. I believe that if humanity found itself again and stopped all the greed (for my ideas on this see my post The Human Condition and the second law of Thermodynamics) scientific, artistic, philosophical, technological etc. etc. developments would speed up because all people would be free to put their minds to whatever they eanted, rather than slogging it out just to stay alive (consider the huge untapped reservoirs of thought which could come from the third world if we removed the cork of greed).
Also, what I am proposing is not socialism or communism, these are dogmas, what i propose is more a kind of mass healing leading to an anarchist democracy (that term doesn't really cover it but hey, what are you gonna do).
Shalom,
Kinch

By the way, I do not think that money should never have been invented or that we should abandon all the technology we have created, it is our attitudes in respect to technology that must change. I also agree that in the past greed (and, sadly war) has helped to spur along industry and thus technology. I do not lament the past for that is the ultimate stupidity, I am more concerned with affecting the present to change the future.

hmmm..........interesting,

Has anyone read "The Passions and the Interests", I can't remember who wrote it but it was a very indepth philosophical/historical examination of Capitalism as it has evolved throughout the ages...."1500-1800" I believe this is the time span it covers. Good book.

Those philosophers who pushed for capitalism, mainly Smith and Hume, though there were countless others, could not forsee the industrial revolution and the evils that would come out of it. The irony is, they saw capitalism as a means for everyone to own their own little parcel of land and their own buisness........especially central to this was the belief that society would no longer have static elites as the old fuedual system had produced.......as one can see with the rich of our generation it appears that this component of Capitalism has failed completely. It is almost like a new fuedualism that has taken hold......especially when some family names start to sound like aristocratic dynasties from the Medievil/early modern period of history.

Capitalism has lots of bad baggage, but the ideal of capitalism, that being based on equality with everyone having the opportunity to move up in society based on hard work/risk taking keeps most from turning against it. As with most ideals though, its mostly rubbish with a few exceptions. Deep down I think capitalism is so popular because it gives the illusion of "equality" and supports our love of suffering. If I suffer long enough I will be rewarded for it at some later point in time (paycheck, promotion...retirment), just like most religions (afterlife), keep this in mind as capitalism was a philosophical justification for a lot of philosophers because it curbed "Human Passions" that were deemed dangerious and not proper, of course this moral justification found great support from the Christian morality of the day, which has its bases in suffering for "something greater"......but as one can see, its clearly a system for the wealthy elite, one in which they can entrench their domination of society just as the nobility of the Middle Ages did years ago.

Hehe..........but it is all prespectives.........I like the fact my roommate cannot within the law exercise his "passions" against my will. I have a high respect for individual liberty, but, one must look at the bases of these things if one is going to find something "better", if that of course is possible.

Peace

Capitalism has lots of bad baggage, but the ideal of capitalism, that being based on equality with everyone having the opportunity to move up in society based on hard work/risk taking keeps most from turning against it. As with most ideals though, its mostly rubbish with a few exceptions.

Hah, yea, the obvious imbalance to this is that moving up in a society meanssomeone is moving down. Because there not as much room at the top.

Upper middle lower. You can be moving on up like the jeffersons, and just as quick you can be moving on down like the Evans family in 'good times'. And you cant tell me James Evans didnt work just as hard as Mr. Jefferson.

... our society, though not as imbalanced and totally disfunctional as some, is still a clusterfu** of imbalance, i dont know how capatilism will last for another 20-30 years before something snaps, our our rules of society are improved upon. As soon as all these old time greed mongers and money hoarders die off and we get the children of the future calling the shots.. :-?

Don't expect too much from the children of the immediate future, remember most groovy idealistic hippies grew up,got jobs and became consumers.